by jumping a chicane ... u take a short cut and gain an advantage.... by going on the outside... u take a longer route and therefore do not gain any advantage... its not that diffcult to understand unless u are a 5 th grader or a lewis loving brit....
In my opinion what happened in the race on Sunday was racing FULL STOP! At the start of just about every GP I watch I see cars taking to run off areas and escape roads to avoid accidents/gain an advantage and places, and never to my knowledge has a complaint been made and a penalty imposed. In the case of the final two laps at Spa, KR was not driving flat out and had become pretty defensive and LH had realised this. He attacked at the final chicane only for KR to squeeze him onto the grass (racing) what followed was LH returning the advantage to KR only for the Englishman to adapt to the racing situation and conditions better than his Finish rival and overcome the Champion at the next corner. The final lap and half was then breathtaking stuff as both KR and ultimately LH dealt with just about everything that could be thrown at them in a GP as best they could¿ it was scrappy, ugly looking at times but extremely exciting. It was one of the best duels of the year at the end and a magnificent race overall. I¿m just devastated for the sport right now because this sort of post race interference that affects the overall standings does nothing to inspire anyone into following/taking part in the sport. Sportsmanship and fair and great racing were on offer this weekend and all we got out of it was bureaucracy at its worst!! Matt
Next year maybe Mclaren should paint there cars red and have a prancing donkey on a yellow background somewhere on the car to be allowed to race??? Absolutely stinks though as far as I'm concerned - and I like Kimi just as much as Lewis but the open favoritism that appears to be going on this year is really ruining the sport for all involved. I for one am getting very sick of the race being run in the stewards office not on the racetrack. Perhaps next race we should just toss a coin to see who gets to win from Ferrari and then just parade around line astern until the delegated red car passes the chequered flag?
Did Kimi not leave the track and drive all the way around the outside of the double apex left hander ( i forget its name) at the back of the circuit while lewis did all he could to get back on then?! Absolutely ridiculous!
As mentioned, one could then argue that KR gained an advantage by using the run off before the incident with NR to maintain his speed/momentum - since after all, he did end up in front of LH following it (despite yellow flags - which aren't being investigated because KR couldn't keep the car on the track long enough to even finish the race). Hell, since we're talking 'off track' let's just penalise LH again at that point since he trekked it over the grass and back on to the track to avoid the incident. The 'advantage' being that he actually made it back on to the track. >_<
if this decision stands it should therefore set a precedent whereby in future races no car will be able to leave the track under race conditions without incurring a penalty. Fair's fair right? i mean wouldn't you expect that all drivers would be subject to the same rules and be applied in the same way? when we watch the race next week we wont know the winner till they work out how many times each car has come off the track. So anyone up for watching F1 if thats the case? I know it sounds absurd but THATS ALL Hamilton's been punished for, going by the regulations cited by the stewards. i mean come on this matter must be addressed. Read the regulations for yourselves if you wish there easily accessible on the FIA website. neither regulation stated says anything about advantages.
Speaking of "Cut the chicane and gained an advantage", the next F1 Race, the Italian Grand Prix, features yet another track infamous for its opening lap pile up along its first corner, Prima Variante, which incidentally is a chicane. I'm sure several drivers will cut it to avoid collisions and somehow gain an advantage in doing so. Some will relinquish that advantage, some probably wont given the chaos. I wonder how the stewards will conduct themselves this time around. Will they investigate the drivers who commit such action? Will they penalize them? If so what would be their panalty? And what would be their reason for the penalty? Or would they even care at all to investigate?
There are several different things to be said here.. - Hamilton did gain an advantage compared to where he would be in relation to Raikonnen had he breaked early enough so as to be able to follow him through the chicane. - It was not a first time offense for Hamilton; he was penalized for the same in France. Whether this was taken into consideration or it matters I don't know. - I do think the penalty was too severe. They sould have given him a 5-spot grid penalty for the next race, or even just a slap in the wrist (fine or a 10 second penalty, either of which would amount to practically no penalty at all). - I think Hamilton could have saved himself a lot of trouble if he waited a couple of corners before passing again. Of course with just 2 laps to go, easier said than done. But with the obvious superiority under the conditions it would have been less of a risk than taking on the stewards. - I hope this championship is won by either Hamilton, or Massa with at least 6 points differense.
It is becoming pretty clear that F1 rules must be extensively revised by FIA. We have had LOTS of dubious decisions (or "non-decisions") in the current and past seasons, adn the rules must be more specifical and detailed about drivers/teams erros and the punishment for these errors. Some get diqualified, some get a fine. This is way too subjective for a so-big sport as F1. However, even though I understand the PF1 bias towards Hamilton, I don't think the FIA decision was so stupid as it might be taken. C'mon: Hamilton really could give back P1 to Raikkonen in a more clear, more "fair play" fashion. He did very little, if only enough, in lifting up the gas pedal and to get back just into Kimi's slipstream. He clearly didn't WANT to give it back... and this is what gave the stewards arguments for punishing him.
Percyfayer - even if he was side by side, the advantage gained was tiny and completely inconsequential, seeing as Raikkonen exited the race shortly afterwards. If the stewards always rule in favour of Ferrari, eventually they're going to get one decision right. It's interesting what you say about Brazil though - it was all a bit convenient that Kimi pipped Alonso and Hamilton by 1 point and that so much went wrong in that race. If the stewards couldn't make a big decision about the fuel irregularities (which are supposed to be penalised according to the rules), it's surprising that they could do it this weekend, when the championship is so close and it's clearly going to have an effect. It'd just be nice to have some consistency wouldn't it?
This is my opinion, but why is Ferrari 1 called F1. because they own the game. its like some little kid. if you dont do what i want i taking my toys with me. Ferrari got away with a breach of legislation when Massa went side by side down the pit lane, as no one got killed it was not deemed as dangerous. Mclaren cut across chicane, give the lead back then overtake them later (big no no, overtaking ferrari in their game Ferrari 1) Let hope the FIA see sense, it this one sided view continues i might not bother watching F1 any more whats the point!!
Raikkonen left the track, drove the entire length of a turn using the runoff area and was right back on Hamilton's tail before passing him under yellow flags (while trying to avoid Rosberg's return after his spinoff). Why isn't this considered "leaving the track" or "gaining an advantage?" I suppose yellow flags have to followed by all cars, except the red ones!
To jamie 666. He was side by side with raikkonen. I rewatch it twice. the first time I thought he was behind, but the second time I saw he was side by side. Which means he got an advantage. A samll one though. Strange enought the FIA ruled right this time. If you want conspirace go to brazil last: all a sudden a missed gear? The biggest gap ferrari to mclaren ( 45 sec. or so), williams and bmw not find for fuel tempertature. That was a set up.
I freely acknowledge Hamiltons incredible talent, but I'm not a fan of his at all. I don't wish him any unreasonable misfortune, but I generally find it somewhat satisfying to see him beaten to the line. This weekend however, I was actually left feeling sorry for the guy. What a disgraceful, over handed decision. An absolute travesty of justice. The stewards are nuts. They don't realise it, but they've actually argued against the laws of physics. By backing off to let Kimi by Lewis's speed had to drop below Kimi's. Proven further by the 6km/h speed differential as they crossed the line. Therefore, it's physically impossible for Lewis to gain any advantage until the instant they begin braking for the next turn. At which point he is perfectly entitled to outbreak and pass Kimi.
P.S. Do you think Niki Lauda's been watching F1 long enough to pass a valid opinion on the subject? Oh wait....what was it he said about the decision?
Question for you Razoola: Where was Hamilton before the incident at the chicane? Answer: Directly behind Raikkonen. Question 2: Where was Hamilton after he ceded the lead back to Raikonnen? Answer: Directly behind Raikkonen. Where is the advantage? If your answer is that Lewis pulled back into Kimi's slipstream, this is only the advantage that he would have had had he carried on behind Kimi through the chicane; that is, the advantage of being the faster car directly behind the car in front on a straight. Where, I ask again, is the advantage? What do you say to Kimi's overtaking of Hamilton and Rosberg under a yellow flag?
It is a fact that lewis gained an advantage from cutting the chicane. If you cannot see or understand why that is a fact then you have not been watching F1 long enough. While lewis did cede back some of that advantage, he did not cede it back fully. What you are also forgetting to mention is that by Lewis's own addmission he did gain an advantage by cutting the chicane.
Why is it a driver can drive off the track and gain enormous amounts of traction, as Kimi did, whihc clearly equates to an adtange without any fear of a penalty? Kimi picked up so much traction on the run off area at one point he almost repassed hamilton because of it and certainly ended up closer than he otherwise would have been.
They are talking about a gain of one or two car lengths over the corner. Its a small advantage but it is a fact i have to admit.
If I am not mistaken, was there not an incident near the start of the race where Kimi Raikkonen made a stunning pass on his team mate Massa, forcing Massa to leave the track and drive off circuit? So how is Massa driving off circuit any different to Hamilton driving off circuit....of yes I forgot Massa is in a Ferrari......
Thanks to Pete for confirming that I'm not insane, given the level of indignance I feel about this. It seems like the FIA hierarchy are hell-bent on denying the boy Hamilton and consequently, robbing us the paying public of real racing. Hamilton and Raikkonen should be getting medals for what they did. Ultimately, in the grey world of the FIA, the third best Massa who ventured nothing comes away with the biggest prize. Ridiculous. As for the racing incident of Hamilton gaining advantage by missing the chicane, I really don't think he was in any better or worse position than if he had followed Raikkonen through the Bus Stop. Along the start finish straight, Hamilton avoided slip streaming Raikkonen and it was only when the Finn dived in front of the McLaren that Hamilton showed any change of direction. I think he was lucky to get such a good slingshot into La Source, but it came from Raikkonen's initiative. Everything about the Steward's judgement seems to be irrational and I take exception to their suppression of actual racing.
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Posted 09/09/2008 @ 14:50 View all TonyW's posts
This article clearly demonstrates that the FIA's management of F1 is a pathetic shambles. Farcically the rules are ambiguous and their selected arbiters unfit for the task assigned to them. The 3 totally incompetent Belgian GP stewards crazily penalise Lewis citing an advantage gained but justify this by quoting an Article that requires drivers to stay on track. If Lewis lost the race for breach of that Article many other drivers would also need to be punished including, perhaps, even Massa and Heidfeld. No wonder the stewards refuse to explain themselves: they could not and would only dig an even bigger hole for themselves. Although it's likely that they will try to remain 'unavailable', they must be held to account and required to explain and justify the penalty in a legal hearing. All of F1s shocked and disgusted fans will then know what exactly happened her and who is responsible. For example what, if any, part in the decision making process did Whiting, Donnelly and Mosley have. Sadly, the issues and concerns raised in this article will mean that the FIAri will disallow the the Mclaren appeal - which is more important than ever! Finally this shows just how important it is that the demands for professional stewards made by JY Stewart, N. Lauda.